Fusion RAM-volatile or "non-volatile"?

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Jokeyman123
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Fusion RAM-volatile or "non-volatile"?

Post by Jokeyman123 »

I've tried to find posts here clarifying this, but I'm still not quite clear re how the sample RAM-the factory 64MB and the additional 128MB modules store samples-will be upgrading, just ordered 2. Volatile-samples load at boot-up, have to be reloaded at every bootup. Non-volatile-modules will store the samples even after power-down, will be present when booting up again. Since the Holy Grail piano seems to need to be loaded from the HD every boot, am guessing all the sample ram is volatile-samples will not be retained when powered down, only the programs. Prior experience-my Ensoniq TS-12, which has volatile sample ram-the Yamaha SY85 same-all sample-based programs have to be reloaded at boot, and my Generalmusic Equinox, which will do both-it has volatile and non-volatile RAM-will store some samples in DRAM, others in volatile SIMMs. Or does the Fusion do both, like the Equinox?
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Re: Fusion RAM-volatile or "non-volatile"?

Post by Jesse »

Whenever you turn your Fusion on The E3 memory is volatile (it will not retain and data once the Fusion is turned off) it will have no programs loaded in memory, as you open various programs they will be copied to the E3 memory multiple programs can be loaded until the memory is full after the memory is full if you open new programs the oldest ones will be replaced by the newer entries.

The 192 MB per voice engine will hold quite a few programs and once they are in the E3 they can be retrieved quickly :)

For instance I can load all of these programs into my Fusion Expanded E3 memory and have all of them readily available by using the corresponding letter and number buttons to call them up instantly :)

PS these programs have been copied to my USER Bank Favorites 01 - You can create multiple user banks and copy (not move what ever programs you want into that folder up to 128 programs (you can load more than 128, but it makes it more difficult to manage))

48 programs in all, that's about all I could squeeze into the expanded memory without loosing any of them :) - The number of programs you can load into the expanded memory will depend on the size of the programs.

My Fusion Favorites 01 list
My Fusion Favorites 01 list
Tempus & Ludwig Drums, Roto Toms, Djembe, Bongo's, Ibanez Bass, Fusion8HD, SUMO300 Amps, Alesis16 Firewire Mixer, AKG D112, Behringer B2, Shure Beta 58a Microphones, Windows 10, Audigy Soundcard, Audition 3, Sony MDR-7506 Headphones, Kontakt 6 & East West Goliath Sound Banks
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Re: Fusion RAM-volatile or "non-volatile"?

Post by Jokeyman123 »

PK, just wanted clarification. So once the sample memory is "populated" initially at bootup with whatever programs need sample memory, these will not need to seek the hard drive again until I power down and reboot. OK, got it. I guess in order to determine which of the factory programs are using sample memory-besides the ones you have listed-is to look at the Fusion volume folder-and dig down to the respective programs and samples folder-to see which are in rom that do not use sample ram, and which that do, as of course this is not just a sample-based workstation. I haven't found it, but is there a screen menu that shows how much sample ram is being used, being populated after bootup, and how much is free? Would be handy, and it might be in the manual somewhere or one of the manuals or other docs, and I see how to boot to the diagnostics. I guess it would be in there? I'll check.
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Re: Fusion RAM-volatile or "non-volatile"?

Post by Jesse »

Page 197 in the reference manual
% CPU Usage
% CPU Usage
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Re: Fusion RAM-volatile or "non-volatile"?

Post by Jokeyman123 »

Jesse, I'm still not clear after going over the manual-carefully. Typically in the computer world, CPU % means how much of the CPU's processing power is being used currently-not the memory. In your screen example Jesse, does this mean that currently you would be using no sample memory in both voices? That's why I'm confused by this screen. Assuming you have loaded at least the HG piano and possibly a few others using sample memory-wouldn't this be reflected in this screen as more than zero? Or does the 2% mean that overall-for both voice 1 and 2 engines, you are now using 2% of the memory for each voice engine? Then what does the 26% mean? all I can deduce is that 1) there are separate CPU's for each audio engine (I've seen these on the mainboard and the schematic) and a 3rd CPU which controls all operations, controls both voice 1 and 2 engines and their respective CPU's. So that the screen indicators for these 3 CPU readings are showing.....the percentage of sample or total memory each CPU has addressed or is addressing-still doesn't make sense since the 2 voices are seeing only 2%, and the 3rd screen/CPU is showing 26%! AAARRRGGGHHH!!!! Oooo I wish I could kidnap one of the Fusion developers!!!! :mrgreen: :naughty:

This is important to me-I am still trying to isolate which part of my defective mainboard could be causing the malfunction-and since I can almost totally operate the broken Fusion with the bad board-with the exception that for some reason I cannot suss out...can get a voice program to operate at full volume from song mode, and some of the mixes with split voices work on one side of the split and not the other-regardless of effects, volume, any settings which could cause this, pretty maddening but i want to get it right. still haven't found anyone capable of troubleshooting the board, I am doing it and have done some voltage and continuity readings-nothing odd yet, I suspect one of the TI DSP chips is doing this, and only for 1 voice engine, could narrow it down to one defective chip or peripheral circuit. Instrumental parts has already verified-they cannot troubleshoot this board, but are definitely sending me a new one, hooray.
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Fusion memory allocation clarified

Post by Jokeyman123 »

Answering my own post-after laboriously watching how my mainboard malfunction partially worked re voice allocation, and studying every post about this I could find-seems that on powering up, the ROM programs one of which is the HG piano-will not use any of the extended memory-or possibly a part of it, still not sure. Any 3rd party sounds-such as the Hollow Sun, Va, MovinPro etc. will load into the base RAM and then the extended RAM if installed. Jesse has clearly explained, on power down-RAM memory refreshes itself-but then will re-load any programs that need the base RAM or extended RAM, which is helping me understand why Jesse's advice to set up a group of my favorite sounds in one FAV folder will speed up my work quite a bit. Essentially, the Fusion allocates its RAM-base and extended-the way my Ensoniq TS-12 and Equinox do-but in a much handier, quicker way and with alot more RAM. The TS-12 retains its "programs" in memory on power down, but not samples which are loaded into simple SIMM computer memory chips-samples must be re-loaded from floppies on every boot-up-which the Fusion is also doing, but from it's hard drive, which is why the SSD is such a good idea-see my other posts-no disk "spin-up" time with an SSD so this helps speed up HD access a bit I think for-well everything! The Equinox has a similar scheme for samples as the Fusion. it has specific non-volatile RAM (not much 8MB if you have the larger DRAM chip) not as good either because it needs to be constantly refreshed by the backup battery to retain its samples-and then it also uses SIMMS-32MB a little more than the Ensoniq-of volatile computer memory-loses all sample programs on power-down. like the Fusion-it has the option of a (relatively small) hard drive-2Gb max since it uses "DOS" and this is as large a drive as DOS can read-but sample data can be stored on that drive, and must be reloaded every time you power up again.

I only describe this here-sorry for posting on the Fusion user group-in comparison now to the Fusion-what a basically elegant system this really is compared to these older machines, and even the newest. Then we have an 8-input digital audio recorder-common now on the better workstations-but not many-and at a few thousand dollars more for the Montage, V-synths etc., a full sampler with built-in editing (Equinox has this-many of the competition needed add-in boards for sampling) and 4 different synth engines-and a killer piano-action keyboard-very quiet by the way compared to quite a few others-anybody reading this-if you can get an 8HD in working condition for around 1000 US, still the best option I've seen for a hardware keyboard/workstation IMO.

One other thing I've discovered about voice allocations with the 2 voice engines-only because I'd tried to work with a bad mainboard with 1 defective voice engine, otherwise I'd never have figured this out, and still not 100% sure on this.

The Fusion CPU must first use the voice engine 1 for playing programs, mixes, samples then will use voice engine 2 for programs in the sequencer-song function-or for playing certain programs individually from the main programs screen-as this is the only way i was able to play programs with a bad voice engine #1-from within the song settings, although split-voice programs would play one of the split voices, and not the other. It must be "INTELLIGENTLY" splitting voice engines based upon a variety of functions-how voices are used in mixes, with different synth program engines-still can't tell as whatever program I called up-would not play from the categories, explorer or individual voice selections, unless I loaded a program into the song editing screen-and even then, it seemed to "stagger" the voices-one track would play-the next wouldn't, the next would, etc. This must be why-you need both expansion ram cards-the Fusion will be using one or the other, or both depending on what it must need, and both voice engines must work-again as these are being allocated based upon how the OS is designed, it is definitely a "tandem" design. Also leads me to 1 other important conclusion-if you are having trouble with only 1 voice engine-as I did-the problem can probably be traced to an individual Texas instruments DSP chip-of which there are individual chips used for one voice engine or the other. Replacing one of those (I think) bad chips would solve that problem. I am trying to get that done....
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Re: Fusion RAM-volatile or "non-volatile"?

Post by Jesse »

Also you can select mono or stereo, see pages 39 & 50 in the Fusion Reference manual
Fusion Functionality Flow Charts.pdf
Fusion Functionality Flow Charts
(137.34 KiB) Downloaded 26 times
Have you seen the SOS Review of the Fusion https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/alesis-fusion

You have probably already discovered this but in case not https://www.alesismusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5835
Tempus & Ludwig Drums, Roto Toms, Djembe, Bongo's, Ibanez Bass, Fusion8HD, SUMO300 Amps, Alesis16 Firewire Mixer, AKG D112, Behringer B2, Shure Beta 58a Microphones, Windows 10, Audigy Soundcard, Audition 3, Sony MDR-7506 Headphones, Kontakt 6 & East West Goliath Sound Banks
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Re: Fusion RAM-volatile or "non-volatile"?

Post by Jokeyman123 »

Flow charts-are these in the reference manual? I don't recall seeing these, but excellent simple description of the structure of programming new sounds, already been playing with FM modulating oscillators to hear what I come up with-I could be the only one on earth that ever tried to program an RCM sound with the SY77-I hurt my head doing it. This looks (somewhat) easier to deal with. Fascinating keyboard-overwhelming what this can do. Little bit at a time, right? Glad I stuck around long enough to do all this. Getting out my inventory of obscene unusual noise-making toys, since creating samples like this, just one aspect of the fusion alone, can keep me out of trouble for at least a few...days! Am very glad I could get the 2nd set of sample modules from MPCStuff-the akai MPC5000 modules are working perfectly in both so far. There is definitely an advantage to the SSD and extra memory as I work my way through all these programs. Still trying to decide how to arrange all these different Hollow Sun Packs-I am not clear where these will end up if I load a separate volume for each pack to what already have. Still a bit confusing. I see how the VA, Movinpro and others are caregorized specifically but not sure where the Hollow Suns will install. If you have any insight there, its welcome.
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