Resolving Velocity Issues

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Austin
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Resolving Velocity Issues

Post by Austin »

Like many 8HD owners, I've noticed a difference in the velocity responses of the black & white keys. I intended to write a post inquiring if anyone has got to the bottom of this problem with mismatched key velocities, but I spotted this site on the web:

http://larsee.dk/introducing-midimixfix ... prototype/

There's also a YouTube posting demonstrating what's possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRt7MXFQuEk

I followed up & bought one of these for a very reasonable sum. I've housed it for now in a small box until I find something that more closely matches the styling of the Fusion. It seems to work fine, smoothing out the differences in velocities nicely. I'm not skilled as a keyboard player, but there is a noticeable improvement.

I would recommend any 8HD owner wanting to resolve their key velocity issues give it a try, but not all at once as it's a one guy hobbiest operation, although in my opinion the electronics look very expertly put together.

2ManyKeys
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Re: Resolving Velocity Issues

Post by 2ManyKeys »

I noticed this immediately while testing my Fusion 8HD. The black keys get velocity values about 20 higher than the white keys.

I contacted the Midimixfix guy to see if he still sells that cool little box.
Last edited by 2ManyKeys on Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2ManyKeys
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Re: Resolving Velocity Issues

Post by 2ManyKeys »

I also read that there are two different keybeds for the 8HD and supposedly one doesn't have this problem. I have a Fatar.

Austin
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Re: Resolving Velocity Issues

Post by Austin »

As a follow up to my less than recent post (how time flies!), I have some further understanding of the root cause of the issue.

In addition to the velocity issues, I have had a number of issues with my Fusion 8HD, (bad power supply, dodgy digital board), so I bought a second that was a little rough, to build one good one. This second one has a Fatar TP20 keybed, which has a much better balanced velocities between black & white keys. The original was definitely a TP40 keybed.

Having removed keys from both & done some measurements, I state there are some differences in the lengths of the lugs that operate the bubble contact switches, which gives differences in the information fed to the operating system.

I have swapped motherboards over at various times (including when the back-up battery needed replacement), it seems they are both set up to expect the data from the TP20, there is no re-calibration for the geometric differences of the TP40 keybed. Basically Alesis needed to update the operating system to adjust for these differences.

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Jesse
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Re: Resolving Velocity Issues

Post by Jesse »

Very nice and interesting Austin :)

How did you determine if you have a TP20 or TP40 keybed?

All I found on one of my 8HD's was this label
My Fusion 8HD keyboard is a FATAR.jpg
Austin, you should put together a document with your keybed findings and upload it as a PDF file

7-10-0110 Keybed Assembly - Fusion 8HD - 1st Version TP20 or TP40?
AL7-10-0131  Keybed Assembly - Fusion 8HD - 2nd Version TP20 or TP40?

http://www.fatar.com/Pages/TP_40_GH_ES.htm

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FUSION6-8HD - Parts available.pdf
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Austin
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Re: Resolving Velocity Issues

Post by Austin »

I will put together as much info as I can, but documentation is not my strong point.

I presume the TP40 is the newer keybed, it can be identified visually by the pink bits used to locate the ends of the keys, and the hammers are coated in pink & white plastic. On the TP20, these parts are green-blue & white. Also, there are brass stand-offs, which are pressed steel in later versions. In addition, the TP40 has a full length mounting flange, that on the TP20 consists of three lugs.
100_1570.JPG
I don't have any photos of my TP20 keybed as it was a rush job to switch this between my Fusions, but as soon as I get some time , I will post more details and if I get chance to double check them, measurements.

Regarding your label, I think this only has quality assurance data, inspectors adding a code to show that it has passed a certain stage of production testing, but no useful info as to the identity of the keybed, don't know if Fatar ever stamped this any where, I don't remember having seen it.

I do remember there are some dates printed on the back of the contact switch circuit boards - something else to check!

I have come across this useful post regarding the maintenance of Fatar keybeds:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/equipment ... lp-268410/

Cheers,

Austin.

Austin
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Re: Resolving Velocity Issues

Post by Austin »

Photo of TP40 that I tried to include in previous post with pink clips for the keys & pressed steel stand-offs:
100_1570.JPG
I have found a photo of my TP20 equipped 8HD, showing green-blue clips, brass stand off & one of three mounting lugs on rear, the TP40 has a flange along the full length of the back.
100_1616.JPG
Hope this helps.
Last edited by Austin on Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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parametric
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Re: Resolving Velocity Issues

Post by parametric »

Hmm . . . .

never seen PINK ones before . . . .

I guess my 8HD has the TP20 then . . . . . ?

I have a 6HD too, but that is different - and plays very nicely - best synth-action I've played

Chris
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https://chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris

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Jesse
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Re: Resolving Velocity Issues

Post by Jesse »

It would be a good know and post the serial number and date of manufacture on the 8HD that came with the TP40 keybed that would give us a time frame to establish when Alesis switched kebeds.

My keyboard has green-blue plastic on the key ends so I guess it's a TP20, which makes sense because I preordered it from Sweetwater before they had them in stock after reading the Keyboard magazine article, before that I was looking at a nice Roland RD700?X keyboard
Tempus & Ludwig drums, Roto Toms-Djembe, Bongo's, Ibanez Bass, Fusion8HD, SUMO300 Amps, Alesis16 Firewire mixer, AKG D112-Behringer, B2-Shure, Beta 58a mics, Win10, Audigy soundcard, Audition3 & East West Goliath sound bank

Austin
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Re: Resolving Velocity Issues

Post by Austin »

At first, I was confused, I can't find a serial number on the back, then I checked underneath:
TP20 Serial No.jpg
TP20: (21)A10711090803165
TP40 Serial No.jpg
TP40: (21)A10711090803170 (Stamped 27 Set 2007)
100_2181.JPG
Which suggests the switch-over happened between 3166 to 3169, but equally, it may be what was handed to the production operative to fit from the stock room at that time.

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Jesse
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Re: Resolving Velocity Issues

Post by Jesse »

Thanks for the additional information Austin :)
Tempus & Ludwig drums, Roto Toms-Djembe, Bongo's, Ibanez Bass, Fusion8HD, SUMO300 Amps, Alesis16 Firewire mixer, AKG D112-Behringer, B2-Shure, Beta 58a mics, Win10, Audigy soundcard, Audition3 & East West Goliath sound bank

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